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Jul 16, 2009 6:40 PM
Last Post By: Jerry G
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Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jun 19, 2009 3:03 PM
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Hi there, could some one tell me what brand and/or model of a graphics card is the BEST for Autodesk software? More compatible and has almost all supported features and is recommended by Autodesk! I'm asking this because I'm going to build a new machine for one of my costumer and he wants to have the best of Autodesk software. He does not care about the pricing of the product just want the best of the best so if some one could tell me I will really appreciate it. I'm looking for Nvidia and AMD products because of gaming and software support. I know gaming cards for Autodesk software does not means they have all supported features! Would really like if a Autodesk representative answers this to me.
Thanks ------- Juan M. Rodríguez Rebollo
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jun 19, 2009 3:34 PM
in response to: juanmrodriguezr...
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Best just to go here... http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/hc?siteID=123112&id=6711853&linkID=9240618However, with Autodesk's move to DirectX, many of the mid-to-upper end gaming cards are just as good in Autocad as the 2-3X more expensive "workstation" counterparts (which all use the same GPU anyway). And, since OpenGL is not even supported by Autocad in Vista, that pretty much eliminates any advantage the workstation cards who's drivers, although "support" DirectX, were never optimized for DirectX the way the "gamer" card drivers have been in all these years. But no one from Autodesk will actually admit that. Back with 2007, they went totally OpenGL (and forced the "workstation card" requirement) and swore up and down that they would NEVER go with DirectX. Then the next year, with 2008, they added support for DirectX and dropped OpenGL support in Vista.
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314
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09/24/08
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jun 19, 2009 6:55 PM
in response to: Joel
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Using the link you provided, the applet tells me the recommended card for acad2010 from Nvidia are only Quadro FX cards (open GL). Is it incorrect then?
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jun 20, 2009 1:23 AM
in response to: jmcintyre
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It's just that Autodesk won't get off that kick just yet.
They invested too much in OpenGL back in '05/'06 (to put in the 2007 release) to admit that they chose the wrong path.
Will the Quadro cards work?
Sure.
I have an FX3700 in my work computer (because Dell won't sell their Precision line without one).
Is it a waste of money? In my opinion, at nearly $800, yes. But I wasn't asked about it when they bought it. A GeForce 9800 GT at 150 bucks is probably just as good.
And I don't care what they say about "certified hardware". I've had no trouble with my little measley GeForce 6600GT I use at home. Or notice that big of a difference between the two cards, graphics-wise.
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Posts:
314
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09/24/08
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jun 21, 2009 5:12 AM
in response to: Joel
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How does that hardware handle in 3Dorbit with shaded visual style?
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jun 22, 2009 12:05 PM
in response to: jmcintyre
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Remember that if you are running directx, the quality and speed have nothing to do with the supposed advantages of the Quadro cards. And you get a lot more directx bang for the buck if you stay away from quadro and firegl. jmcintyre wrote: How does that hardware handle in 3Dorbit with shaded visual style?
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jun 24, 2009 2:32 AM
in response to: jmcintyre
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wrote in message... How does that hardware handle in 3Dorbit with shaded visual style? The 6600GT does just fine for medium sized models depending on the complexity. A huge model will go a little slow, but it does so on the Quadro too. The conceptual visual style seems to put the biggest strain on anything.
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679
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09/26/06
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jun 23, 2009 12:50 AM
in response to: Joel
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It could be that some bound contract between nVidia's with either Autodesk or workstation manufacturers ain't over yet. You know the kind of contract to get their pricey "professional' product line to the "certified" hardware (Autodesk case), and "no other option sorry" (Dell, HP, etc...). Things went their way until the sh|t stirrer, namely Microsoft, joined the game and screwed things up with it's DX enforcing battle, which actually maybe a good thing.
Honestly I don't mind paying four time the price and expect the perfomance only be twice. But the fact is the performance is no where near what I expected. And the support is even worse. The so-called performance drivers don't work on most vertical applications, only vanilla AutoCAD. Who need "performance drivers" to draw lines and circle anyways?
So, to the OP, take the others' advices and don't waste the money.
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jun 24, 2009 1:17 PM
in response to: TeamSquid
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I have not not seen any benefit with 2010 from a Quadro FX 1700 vs a Radeon 4870 or a Geforce GTS 250 using XP & Vista 64. The Quadro was about $500 the others under $200. I feel like I was ripped off just looking at the Quadro side by side with the others. ;)
-- John Mayo, PE
Core i7 920 6GB DDR3 Radeon 4870HD 1 GB Vista64
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jun 19, 2009 3:37 PM
in response to: juanmrodriguezr...
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This is peer to peer support. Autodesk has a compatibility page.....However autodesk software no longer needs OpenGL support and actually performs better in Directx, so the best gamer's videocard will work quite well. Autocad does not support dual videocards like Nvidia's SLI or AMD/ATI's CROSSFIRE but doesn't have a problem with dual cards, it just doesn't care. juanmrodriguezrebollo wrote: Hi there, could some one tell me what brand and/or model of a graphics card is the BEST for Autodesk software? More compatible and has almost all supported features and is recommended by Autodesk! I'm asking this because I'm going to build a new machine for one of my costumer and he wants to have the best of Autodesk software. He does not care about the pricing of the product just want the best of the best so if some one could tell me I will really appreciate it. I'm looking for Nvidia and AMD products because of gaming and software support. I know gaming cards for Autodesk software does not means they have all supported features! Would really like if a Autodesk representative answers this to me. Thanks ------- Juan M. RodrÃguez Rebollo
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Registered:
07/01/09
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 1, 2009 12:38 PM
in response to: Jerry G
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Hi all, this is exactly what I too need to find out as currently speccing 2 new pc's for AutoCad 2010 and would appreciate your input / experience on this.
Sorry in advance for all the questions but I prefer to look dumb but get the right stuff than wasting money on a lower performing system when used for what I want.
I understand rendering performance isn't reliant upon the gpu so what can a better gpu give you? Would 2 gaming cards in sli / xfire offer any performance in displaying a 3d model? Is a "better" gpu just classed as bigger memory at higher speed? For large 3d files is there any real benefit or need for using say 2x FX3700's or 2x HD4870's?
Currently looking at these to use in single or SLI / Xfire, what would you buy?: Quadro FX3700 (512Mb DDR3), new £220 each (price is correct - surplus stock). GTX285 (1024Mb DDR3), Cuda/PhysX new £240 each GTX275 (896Mb DDR3), Cuda/PhysX new £170 each ATI HD4890 (1Gb DDR5), new £140 each ATI HD4870 (1Gb DDR5), new £110 each not looked at any 4850X2, etc gpu's as meant to be very noisy.
I want to do some CFD aswell so not sure if the NV gpu's would offer better performance for that application over non Cuda/PhysX ATI?
I've looked at 3 gpu's in sli but not sure if I could benefit plus the extra noise, heat and huge power consumption is exactly what I don't want so if I can get away with just one GPU then I will.
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 1, 2009 1:06 PM
in response to: ThreeDeeUser
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Forget Quadro: won't get support from MS any more and technical advantages are gone without the MS support, so you are paying a high premium price for the same performance as a much lower priced gamer's chip. The "surplus stock" on the Quadro is due to the fact that nobody with knowledge of the whole story is buying them. There are some super expensive Quadro's but I don't know if they are any faster than the highest end gamer's card. Forget SLI and XFire: not supported by Autodesk at this time. (Some of the GPU as processor functions may be useful later, but by then you may have replaced your computer, so why pay now?) As the current speed champ in GPU's is Nvidia, I would get an sli capable motherboard, but only get the best GPU from Nvidia that I could afford. ThreeDeeUser wrote: Hi all, this is exactly what I too need to find out as currently speccing 2 new pc's for AutoCad 2010 and would appreciate your input / experience on this. Sorry in advance for all the questions but I prefer to look dumb but get the right stuff than wasting money on a lower performing system when used for what I want. I understand rendering performance isn't reliant upon the gpu so what can a better gpu give you? Would 2 gaming cards in sli / xfire offer any performance in displaying a 3d model? Is a "better" gpu just classed as bigger memory at higher speed? For large 3d files is there any real benefit or need for using say 2x FX3700's or 2x HD4870's? Currently looking at these to use in single or SLI / Xfire, what would you buy?: Quadro FX3700 (512Mb DDR3), new £220 each (price is correct - surplus stock). GTX285 (1024Mb DDR3), Cuda/PhysX new £240 each GTX275 (896Mb DDR3), Cuda/PhysX new £170 each ATI HD4890 (1Gb DDR5), new £140 each ATI HD4870 (1Gb DDR5), new £110 each not looked at any 4850X2, etc gpu's as meant to be very noisy. I want to do some CFD aswell so not sure if the NV gpu's would offer better performance for that application over non Cuda/PhysX ATI? I've looked at 3 gpu's in sli but not sure if I could benefit plus the extra noise, heat and huge power consumption is exactly what I don't want so if I can get away with just one GPU then I will.
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 1, 2009 2:09 PM
in response to: Jerry G
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I agree - forget SLI/Crossfire. Worthless in Acad. There may be some benefit in overall system performance, but Acad's driver won't know what to do with more than one card.
If someone made an i7 processor based ATX motherboard with a *single* pci-e x16 slot, I'd snap it up in second.
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 1, 2009 2:44 PM
in response to: Joel
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Why not get a 2 slot motherboard in case software later can use an extra card? You could always add it later. Remember that PCI-E isn't the same as older AGP and PCI slot types. You can put an X1, X2 or X8 card in an X16 slot and it will work. In fact you can, if clearances allow, put an x16 card into a lower bandwidth slot and it will work, it will just be limited to the slot's bandwidth. The first segment of the slot gets the card working, and each additional contact area adds to the bandwidth. Some companies are using slots with the rear of the slot open-ended so that a card can protrude out the back. It looks weird, but it actually works. I would guess that they do that instead of using an X16 slot in the first place probably because they are not willing to pay licensing fees for the SLI or Xfire firmware, assuming that there is a cost for that. But if you need to connect 4 monitors, it would allow you to have the extra monitors, but the 2 extras would perform at much lower speeds. Great way to keep email etc open on screen while working. Joel wrote: I agree - forget SLI/Crossfire. Worthless in Acad. There may be some benefit in overall system performance, but Acad's driver won't know what to do with more than one card. If someone made an i7 processor based ATX motherboard with a *single* pci-e x16 slot, I'd snap it up in second.
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07/01/09
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 3, 2009 10:42 AM
in response to: Jerry G
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Thats great information and advice, thank you.
So with a single GPU will you really see any benefit in performance using say a £400 GTX295 over a £200 GTX275?
I ask as i'm still not sure in what areas / applications a better GPU will make a difference in, would it be say being able to rotate a larger (more detailed) 3D model quicker?
I mainly draw motorsport components in 2d but will need to visualise car body panels to optimise a detailed design mainly for aerodynamics & styling. I hope this will eventually become quicker & easier than doing clay models in full size, i'm reluctant to jump into 3D but feel its a necessity.
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 6, 2009 1:27 PM
in response to: ThreeDeeUser
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I higher end GPU should theoretically give you better realtime graphics such as 3d-orbit stuff. But how much better? I don't know.
No one's done a real comparison of all these incrementally better cards to know what the real difference will be in something like AutoCAD. No one's even done a comparison of the GeForce to the Quatros for that matter. What we talk about here is more along the lines of experience.
Games? Sure. There are a ton of sites that compare all these slightly different cards with their .5 second differences in framerates. But that doesn't neccessarily translate the same way in AutoCAD. The graphics pipeline is used differently.
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 6, 2009 1:29 PM
in response to: Joel
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"Joel" wrote in message... No one's even done a comparison of the GeForce to the Quatros for that matter. Make that "Quadros" My spell check isn't working in OE.
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 6, 2009 8:56 PM
in response to: Joel
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Has anyone tested even informally the difference between video cards for large image files (200 MB JPEGs)? We bought a Geforce GTS 250 thinking that it would be a massive step up from my old ATI FireGL 5100. Overall it is faster, but not the 10x I was hoping for. (It went into a new machine with faster everything plus 64 bit and more memory.) I know the Geforce GTS 250 is pretty much bottom of the line for the 200 series, but I would have expected a new 1 GB DirectX video card to blow an old 128 M OpenGL card right out of the water. The only place where the two computers are similar is that they both pull from the same network drive. Old Machine: 3.0 GHz P4 3 GB RAM ATI FireGL V5100 with 128 MB XP Pro 32 bit New Machine: 3.0 GHz Core 2 Quad Q9650 4 GB RAM Geforce GTS 250 with 1 GB Vista Business 64 bit Brad "Joel" wrote in message news:6213371@discussion.autodesk.com... "Joel" wrote in message... No one's even done a comparison of the GeForce to the Quatros for that matter. Make that "Quadros" My spell check isn't working in OE.
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Posts:
679
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09/26/06
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 6, 2009 9:10 PM
in response to: Brad
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If you are talking about opening, editing, and saving a 200MB image, the video card is not the main factor here, but your CPU and RAM. Looking at your computer specs side by side, they won't be 10x different, 2x maybe. Adding 4GB more of RAM to the new box is recommended.
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 6, 2009 9:59 PM
in response to: TeamSquid
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It is slow just loading the file, zooming and panning in AutoCAD. The video RAM is almost 10x. We can add more regular RAM if that will really help, but it is the only area where we need the speed increase so I don't want to add it if it won't make a substantial difference. The C2Q machine has two 2GB chips with two open slots, so we can go to 8 GB..
Brad C3D 2010, LT 2010 Vista Business 64, XP Pro
wrote in message news:6213772@discussion.autodesk.com... If you are talking about opening, editing, and saving a 200MB image, the video card is not the main factor here, but your CPU and RAM. Looking at your computer specs side by side, they won't be 10x different, 2x maybe. Adding 4GB more of RAM to the new box is recommended.
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Posts:
679
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09/26/06
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 7, 2009 12:14 AM
in response to: Brad
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From my limited knowledge with PC hardware, I don't think the entire amount of video RAM can be used for raster graphic unless the software support it. Heard the latest version of PhotoShop can take advantage of it but not AutoCAD.
Normally, a very small protion of video RAM is used for screen display. Say your screen is 1600x1200 so it uses about 2MB of video RAM. Most of the video RAM will be use for 3D textureing (think SHADE in AutoCAD, or 3D game) so it will help in case you are orbiting a 3D large model full of textures in AutoCAD. So in your case, I doubt any video card will help, even the most expensive OpenGLs.
If you can tell me the size of the image in pixels I can elaborate why adding more RAM may help.
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 7, 2009 1:24 PM
in response to: TeamSquid
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For example, one drawing file has four 183 MB TIF images that are 8000 x 8000 pixels each. My screen resolution on the new computer's 24" widescreen monitor is 1960 x 1020.
Brad C3D 2010, LT 2010 Vista Business 64, XP Pro
wrote in message news:6213882@discussion.autodesk.com... From my limited knowledge with PC hardware, I don't think the entire amount of video RAM can be used for raster graphic unless the software support it. Heard the latest version of PhotoShop can take advantage of it but not AutoCAD.
Normally, a very small protion of video RAM is used for screen display. Say your screen is 1600x1200 so it uses about 2MB of video RAM. Most of the video RAM will be use for 3D textureing (think SHADE in AutoCAD, or 3D game) so it will help in case you are orbiting a 3D large model full of textures in AutoCAD. So in your case, I doubt any video card will help, even the most expensive OpenGLs.
If you can tell me the size of the image in pixels I can elaborate why adding more RAM may help.
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679
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09/26/06
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 7, 2009 4:03 PM
in response to: Brad
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OK I thought you had 200MB JPEGs which can be huge, dimension wise. But you actually working with TIFF and a 8000x8000 which is 192Mb uncompressed and I am unable to explain why it's slow in ACAD. I am throwing a wild guess that the program is not designed to handle raster image that big. I work with images similar in dimensions in PhotoShop and it's not that bad as in ACAD.
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 7, 2009 9:37 PM
in response to: TeamSquid
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Yeah, I thought they were jpegs since we work with them too. It just depends on the source. Does anyone know if working with Raster Design would help the speed. Right now we just use the plain AutoCAD imageattach command.
Brad C3D 2010, LT 2010 Vista Business 64, XP Pro
wrote in message news:6214296@discussion.autodesk.com... OK I thought you had 200MB JPEGs which can be huge, dimension wise. But you actually working with TIFF and a 8000x8000 which is 192Mb uncompressed and I am unable to explain why it's slow in ACAD. I am throwing a wild guess that the program is not designed to handle raster image that big. I work with images similar in dimensions in PhotoShop and it's not that bad as in ACAD.
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 6, 2009 11:18 PM
in response to: Joel
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I did not do any formal benchmarking but I see no major differences between the following which I have all in Core i7 boxes with 6 gig of ram the same Asus MB, Vista 64 & C3D 2010.
Quadro Fx 1700 Radeon 4870 Geforce GTX 9800+ Geforce GTS 250
John
"Joel" wrote in message news:6213370@discussion.autodesk.com... I higher end GPU should theoretically give you better realtime graphics such as 3d-orbit stuff. But how much better? I don't know.
No one's done a real comparison of all these incrementally better cards to know what the real difference will be in something like AutoCAD. No one's even done a comparison of the GeForce to the Quatros for that matter. What we talk about here is more along the lines of experience.
Games? Sure. There are a ton of sites that compare all these slightly different cards with their .5 second differences in framerates. But that doesn't neccessarily translate the same way in AutoCAD. The graphics pipeline is used differently.
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07/17/06
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 11, 2009 2:54 AM
in response to: juanmrodriguezr...
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My experience with the low to mid range quadros is the same as everyone elses here; a good gamer card will work fine for 99% of your modeling. I have recently been lucky enough to aquire a ATI V8700 and a Quadro FX 4800.
There is a difference in the higher end cards. The ATI is better than a GTX280 or HD4890 (yes, I have tried them both) in all aspects of CAD, how much better depends on the complexity of your model, as it grows so does the difference in the cards, where the ATI product really shines is in 3dsMax, just amazing how smooth and accurate the shaded 3d viewports are.
The Nvida card is all that and much more. The AutoCAD 2010 performance in any mode with very large and complex models is astonishing, smooth as silk in all 3d modes, beautiful tranparancies. In 3dsMAX the performance again outshines the ATI product, although the difference is not as significant.
I do believe that the workstation class cards have better drivers which contributes to improved stabilty. My Quadro and FirePro never crash where as my gamer cards did, not very often, but enough to make it a PITA. As for the softmod alternative, again, it does help, but are even less stable than the geforce drivers and ATI cats...
Current System Spec
W3520 @ 4'035 GHz - Rampage 2 Extreme XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 - 12GB Gskill DDR3-1600 2x Vertex 120 @ RAID0 - 4x WD6400AAKS @ RAID 0+1 Nvidia Quadro FX4800 + 9800 GT dedicated PhysX Card BFG ES 800 - WIN7x64
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Posts:
2
Registered:
07/16/09
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 16, 2009 1:35 PM
in response to: sgrinavi
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I learned more in 2 min than 4 hours hardware research, thank god for forums(or was that the Romans). I used to use an old Dell laptop as my main workhorse; it had a 1.3 P2, 1GB ram, on board ATI graphics, XP32 chop chop, and AutoCAD 2004-2007 worked flawlessly (pushing the envelope back then) for complex 3D parts rendering for machine prototyping until I reached the 8MB file size, ah the days of off the shelf hardware. When 2008 hit, the laptop was dead and I had to move on, switched to affordable duel core, vista 32, 128MB DDR2 Nvidia 7000something, 4GB DDR2 RAM and functionally I took a 80% paycut because it was like working underwater, in molasses, and I'm sure I aged 10 years and put on 20lbs snacking while waiting for 3D Orbit to rotate the part. Autodesk resellers used to give me that deer in the headlights look when I would ask for the "real" hardware requirements for 3D rendering, of course I never had the $6k budget for a pc in 2006, still don't.
Now it looks like there may be hope once again in building my new work station for under $3k. Thanks for warning me off of SLI I almost made a $700 blunder. I understand the difference between ATI and Nvida is mostly architectural and though the stat sheets for a GTX look poor compared to Radeon HD (as in stream processors 200 vs 800(2)) in performance testing the benchmarks don't show dramatic difference,s at least when you consider one is half the price of the other. At this point however I will defer to those with actual acad experience.
To my question: please advise on which card goes best with 2010 and system...Vista or 7 64bit , Intel Core 2 Quad, 8-12GB DDR2 800 RAM,
Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB 512-bit GDDR5 $300, or GeForce GTX 285 1GB 512-bit DDR3 $300
Edited by: sw3dp on Jul 16, 2009 1:36 PM
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9
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07/17/06
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 16, 2009 4:00 PM
in response to: sw3dp
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The x2 is a cross fire card, stay away from that. Between the two cards you have presented the 285 is a better choice, The ATI 4890 is just a good and less expensive.
FWIW - If I were going to spend 3k on a system right now it would be a Win 7 box with Asus WS board with the W3520 processor, 12 GB of DDR3-1600 RAM, an Intel SSD for my OS & Apps with a pair of RAID 1 TB WD blacks for my data. The video card would be a workstation class card, probably a FirePRO v8700, you can get them for $600ish on ebay these days.
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Re: Best Graphics Card for ACAD software
Posted:
Jul 16, 2009 6:40 PM
in response to: sw3dp
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The 4870 x2 is crossfire in 1 slot. The x2 means 2 gpu's working together on 1 board. I know nothing about the 2 boards otherwise, but I suspect that the second gpu will never be used by acad. sw3dp wrote: I learned more in 2 min than 4 hours hardware research, thank god for forums(or was that the Romans). I used to use an old Dell laptop as my main workhorse; it had a 1.3 P2, 1GB ram, on board ATI graphics, XP32 chop chop, and AutoCAD 2004-2007 worked flawlessly (pushing the envelope back then) for complex 3D parts rendering for machine prototyping until I reached the 8MB file size, ah the days of off the shelf hardware. When 2008 hit, the laptop was dead and I had to move on, switched to affordable duel core, vista 32, 128MB DDR2 Nvidia 7000something, 4GB DDR2 RAM and functionally I took a 80% paycut because it was like working underwater, in molasses, and I'm sure I aged 10 years and put on 20lbs snacking while waiting for 3D Orbit to rotate the part. Autodesk resellers used to give me that deer in the headlights look when I would ask for the "real" hardware requirements for 3D rendering, of course I never had the $6k budget for a pc in 2006, still don't. Now it looks like there may be hope once again in building my new work station for under $3k. Thanks for warning me off of SLI I almost made a $700 blunder. I understand the difference between ATI and Nvida is mostly architectural and though the stat sheets for a GTX look poor compared to Radeon HD (as in stream processors 200 vs 800(2)) in performance testing the benchmarks don't show dramatic difference,s at least when you consider one is half the price of the other. At this point however I will defer to those with actual acad experience. To my question: please advise on which card goes best with 2010 and system...Vista or 7 64bit , Intel Core 2 Quad, 8-12GB DDR2 800 RAM, Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB 512-bit GDDR5 $300, or GeForce GTX 285 1GB 512-bit DDR3 $300 Edited by: sw3dp on Jul 16, 2009 1:36 PM
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