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Replies:
34
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Last Post:
Apr 1, 2009 7:11 PM
Last Post By: David Kozina
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Posts:
8
Registered:
03/27/09
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How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 28, 2009 2:36 AM
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Hey Folks,
I'm a long time Autocad user but have only now begun to venture into alternative drafting methods. which, in turn, have given rise to a number of questions. My primary question, one that I haven't been able to find an answer for anywhere on the web, is whether or not it is possible to draft in black and white using Autocad? I've never really liked drafting with color pens so I've dabbled a bit with various settings to suit my fancy in Autocad. However, adjusting the Page Setup and clicking on the display plot styles in order to get a black and white view or what the plots actually look like no longer seems efficient. I WOULD LIKE TO DRAFT IN BLACK AND WHITE. Does anyone know if this is even possible in Autocad? If so, how would I do it? The only way that I have been able to concoct is to use the black and gray pen colors and display the lineweights in model and paper space. This allows me to see line thicknesses and compare them while still drafting instead of having to set up a sheet and use the method that I've been using.
Any information on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again.
DonQuePaso
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 28, 2009 3:32 AM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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DonQuePaso wrote: Hey Folks, I'm a long time Autocad user but have only now begun to
venture into alternative drafting methods. which, in turn, have given
rise to a number of questions. My primary question, one that I haven't
been able to find an answer for anywhere on the web, is whether or not
it is possible to draft in black and white using Autocad? I've never
really liked drafting with color pens so I've dabbled a bit with various
settings to suit my fancy in Autocad. However, adjusting the Page Setup
and clicking on the display plot styles in order to get a black and
white view or what the plots actually look like no longer seems
efficient. I WOULD LIKE TO DRAFT IN BLACK AND WHITE. Does anyone know if
this is even possible in Autocad? If so, how would I do it? The only way
that I have been able to concoct is to use the black and gray pen colors
and display the lineweights in model and paper space. This allows me to
see line thicknesses and compare them while still drafting instead of
having to set up a sheet and use the method that I've been using. Any
information on the matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
DonQuePaso Black and white? Black background (tools>options>display) and white lines? Plot using Monochrome and you get black lines on a white sheet! Never done this before? |
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 28, 2009 4:11 AM
in response to: none
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Why not make your background white? Set your pen style to black & white and you are done. Not that I'd do that. I like the colour - helps in reading drawings quickly. ie I can see what's on what layer. wrote in message news:6151100@discussion.autodesk.com... DonQuePaso wrote: Hey Folks, I'm a long time Autocad user but have only now begun to
venture into alternative drafting methods. which, in turn, have given
rise to a number of questions. My primary question, one that I haven't
been able to find an answer for anywhere on the web, is whether or not
it is possible to draft in black and white using Autocad? I've never
really liked drafting with color pens so I've dabbled a bit with various
settings to suit my fancy in Autocad. However, adjusting the Page Setup
and clicking on the display plot styles in order to get a black and
white view or what the plots actually look like no longer seems
efficient. I WOULD LIKE TO DRAFT IN BLACK AND WHITE. Does anyone know if
this is even possible in Autocad? If so, how would I do it? The only way
that I have been able to concoct is to use the black and gray pen colors
and display the lineweights in model and paper space. This allows me to
see line thicknesses and compare them while still drafting instead of
having to set up a sheet and use the method that I've been using. Any
information on the matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
DonQuePaso Black and white? Black background (tools>options>display) and white lines? Plot using Monochrome and you get black lines on a white sheet! Never done this before? |
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 28, 2009 4:25 AM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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Go to OPtions, display tab and change your
background to white. Go to your plot dialogue and select the plot style
down arrow and hit New Select 'Start from Scratch' Next Call it BlackOnly Next Click Plot Style Table Editor. Go to form view You have normal style which you can't change.
It will draw in colour Add Style button Call Style 'Black Only' Set Colour to be Black If you want create another called Color to print
colour - just in case but you could also just use Normal. Set up your layers to use the black only plot style
and set your pen thickness as you want that layer (you can override that if you
need to). Draw on your white screen and you will have black
lines. If you want a red line as we sometimes do just use
the colour plot style and draw in red or what ever colour you like. You could explore the OOTB plot styles (receommend
,stb over ctb) and perhaps one of them (maybe monochrome) will do this for
you. best to ya
<DonQuePaso> wrote in message
Hey
Folks, I'm a long time Autocad user but have only now begun to venture into
alternative drafting methods. which, in turn, have given rise to a number of
questions. My primary question, one that I haven't been able to find an answer
for anywhere on the web, is whether or not it is possible to draft in black
and white using Autocad? I've never really liked drafting with color pens so
I've dabbled a bit with various settings to suit my fancy in Autocad. However,
adjusting the Page Setup and clicking on the display plot styles in order to
get a black and white view or what the plots actually look like no longer
seems efficient. I WOULD LIKE TO DRAFT IN BLACK AND WHITE. Does anyone know if
this is even possible in Autocad? If so, how would I do it? The only way that
I have been able to concoct is to use the black and gray pen colors and
display the lineweights in model and paper space. This allows me to see line
thicknesses and compare them while still drafting instead of having to set up
a sheet and use the method that I've been using. Any information on the matter
would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
DonQuePaso
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Posts:
8
Registered:
03/27/09
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 28, 2009 4:43 AM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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Erhm. Black background and white lines...did you not read my entire post? Of course I know how to PLOT in monochrome! I want to DRAFT in monochrome. That was the specific question and was stated as such, not whether or not it was possible to plot in b&w.
With that misunderstanding clarified I hope to get some help on my actual question. Can you draft monochromatically in Autocad?
Thanks.
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 28, 2009 8:16 AM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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I presume you posted before I posted ?
Erhm.
Black background and white lines...did you not read my entire post? Of course
I know how to PLOT in monochrome! I want to DRAFT in monochrome.
That was the specific question and was stated as such, not whether or not it
was possible to plot in b&w. With that misunderstanding clarified I hope
to get some help on my actual question. Can you draft monochromatically in
Autocad? Thanks.
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Posts:
8
Registered:
03/27/09
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 28, 2009 4:02 PM
in response to: Nathan
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Nathan, yes, I posted my response before I got yours. You provided the answer that I was looking for. Pardon my curt reply to "none", I realize that there is no way to know what my actual level of experience is so I appreciate your explanation.
Gordon, I thank you for your response as well. I believe that using "display plot styles" as inefficient because of the manner in which I use it. It may not be the best way, but it is the method that seems best at present. That way is to draft, in the traditional way (a way which style based was intended to do away with) in the form of an xref, and then to set up a sheet in paper space (normally a different file) and display plot files so that through a viewport the drawing is seen in black and white. This allows me to see what the drawing will actually look like before plotting without having to use the plot preview over and over. This doesn't seem efficient to me for checking the drawing, and served as the impetus for my inquiry. Do you Nathan, or you Gordon, have a better way to achieve the plot checking that differs from using a monochromatic drafting scheme?
Thanks again.
Edited by: DonQuePaso on Mar 28, 2009 4:04 PM
Edited by: DonQuePaso on Mar 28, 2009 4:04 PM
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 28, 2009 4:40 PM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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For most of us, we respond to the colour and read a
pen thickness. I've just converted to using AEC Standard.stb plot
style which I find logical and clear to understand. Colours no longer mean
a pen thickness and I can use them to read the drawings (layers etc). To
do a final check I go to my paperspace sheet setup and check before
plotting (yes the display plot styles box is always ticked. Follow my advice and you can quickly check if it's
for you but be aware that the screen lies about the pen thickness as it adjusts
depending on zoom. To do what I suggest took me about 1min so it's no loss
to try it out but personally I like using colour - just not for pen thickness
any more!
Nathan,
yes, I posted my response before I got yours. You provided the answer that I
was looking for. Pardon my curt reply to "none", I realize that there is no
way to know what my actual level of experience is so I appreciate your
explanation. Gordon, I thank you for your response as well. I believe that
using "display plot styles" as inefficient because of the manner in which I
use it. It may not be the best way, but it is the method that seems best at
present. That way is to draft, in the traditional way (a way which style based
was intended to do away with) in the form of an xref, and then to set up a
sheet in paper space (normally a different file) and display plot files so
that through a viewport the drawing is seen in black and white. This allows me
to see what the drawing will actually look like before plotting without having
to use the plot preview over and over. This doesn't seem efficient to me for
checking the drawing, and served as the impetus for my inquiry. Do you Nathan,
or you Gordon, have a better way to achieve the plot checking that differs
from using a monochromatic drafting scheme? Thanks again. Edited by:
DonQuePaso on Mar 28, 2009 4:04 PM Edited by: DonQuePaso on Mar 28, 2009 4:04
PM
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 28, 2009 2:08 PM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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DonQuePaso wrote: Erhm. Black background and white lines...did you not read my entire
post? Of course I know how to PLOT in monochrome! I want to
DRAFT in monochrome. That was the specific question and was
stated as such, not whether or not it was possible to plot in b&w. With
that misunderstanding clarified I hope to get some help on my actual
question. Can you draft monochromatically in Autocad? Thanks. You said "I WOULD LIKE TO DRAFT IN BLACK AND WHITE" - what do you think you're doing when using white lines over black background? If you want black over white background, then you needed to say that. |
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 28, 2009 10:39 AM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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Well, in a sense, you have answered your own question. Obviously, most people prefer to use colour in their display when drafting
as it is useful to act as an aide memoire for layers and line thicknesses, and
can be helpful when viewing a drawing to easily identify different
elements. However, manual drafting, as I'm sure many people now using CAD recall only
too well, was almost exclusively in B/W. You chose your pencil hardness and
according to the material upon which you were drawing, you applied pressure
accordingly to achieve a drawing that displayed differing densities and
thicknesses of line that could be understood visually in a very immediate sense.
Drafting with pen and ink became width based only and therefore more 'technical'
in effect. AutoCAD does offer a version of that as you have mentioned in your post in
respect of using the 'display plot styles' setting with black and gray colours.
I'm not sure why you suggest that using 'display plot styles' is
inefficient - unless you mean having to set it in the first place, but that
could easily be done in a template of course. As to the thickness display of
lines, (which could never truly reflect the minute differences that the eye can
distinguish between), that can only be reproduced by means of line-pixel
widths with the effect being subject to the resolution of your graphics
card and monitor. Not many people use much beyond 2560x1600 screen resolutions,
and even this is far too coarse to represent the fine gradations in line width
that can be achieved manually, particularly where a line is at an angle and
'jaggies' are introduced. On the other hand, you are not limited to just the 8 grades of grey plus
black/white. When you use the layer properties manager, the 'Select Colour'
dialog displays. If you click on the True Colour tab, you can set up to 255
levels of luminance, though of course, the quality of the display of
these will be dependent upon the quality of your monitor. This would
give every possible value of black to white that you could want, which in
combination with display plot styles would surely approach what you need. I'm
not sure that any more than say a dozen different gradations of grey would
be of much use, (try matching that manually) so you could select luminance
changes of 20 to set your colours. Obviously, you can set your background to
white, though most people find this too glaring for extended use. Beyond this, I'm really not too sure what you want to achieve. Surely the
whole point of drafting with computers was to make the process more efficient
and to remove the effort involved in many manual tasks (eg.
hatching, dashed and dotted lines, brick coursing etc). Naturally the cost
has always been that you have to make compromises in the way you work in order
to get the benefits, and one of the most basic of costs is that CAD only
approximates the manual drafting environment. -- Gordon
Hey
Folks, I'm a long time Autocad user but have only now begun to venture into
alternative drafting methods. which, in turn, have given rise to a number of
questions. My primary question, one that I haven't been able to find an answer
for anywhere on the web, is whether or not it is possible to draft in black
and white using Autocad? I've never really liked drafting with color pens so
I've dabbled a bit with various settings to suit my fancy in Autocad. However,
adjusting the Page Setup and clicking on the display plot styles in order to
get a black and white view or what the plots actually look like no longer
seems efficient. I WOULD LIKE TO DRAFT IN BLACK AND WHITE. Does anyone know if
this is even possible in Autocad? If so, how would I do it? The only way that
I have been able to concoct is to use the black and gray pen colors and
display the lineweights in model and paper space. This allows me to see line
thicknesses and compare them while still drafting instead of having to set up
a sheet and use the method that I've been using. Any information on the matter
would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
DonQuePaso
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Posts:
1,252
Registered:
12/11/03
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 30, 2009 10:20 PM
in response to: Gordon Stephens
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You chose your pencil hardness and
according to the material upon which you were drawing, you applied pressure
accordingly to achieve a drawing that displayed differing densities and
thicknesses of line that could be understood visually in a very immediate sense.
Our media of choice was ink on vellum before the AutoCAD came to this office. Each pen had a color on the cap end, and the pen body had a collar of this same color. For each lineweight I wanted, I would think of the color first... When AutoCAD DID come to the office, it came time to assign pen weights. Using a scale of -2 to +2, we devised 5 primary pen weights. The only color that seemed out of order for us was Magenta. We use this as our heaviest pen weight because of the field's "Purple Studs". Violet, tan, yellow, gray, brown, red, green (and blue for the title) was converted to red, yellow, white, green and magenta for the AutoCAD. So, even back when, I was not drawing in B&W... Nice memories, huh? |
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 28, 2009 2:51 PM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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In your Page Setup Manager, there is an option to Display Plot Styles.
If you use a plot style table that is monochrome, you can have it display
that way.
There is also a lineweight toggle so that you can see your lineweights as
well.
hth,
David Kozina
wrote in message news:6151087@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hey Folks, I'm a long time Autocad user but have only now begun to venture
into alternative drafting methods. which, in turn, have given rise to a
number of questions. My primary question, one that I haven't been able to
find an answer for anywhere on the web, is whether or not it is possible to
draft in black and white using Autocad? I've never really liked drafting
with color pens so I've dabbled a bit with various settings to suit my fancy
in Autocad. However, adjusting the Page Setup and clicking on the display
plot styles in order to get a black and white view or what the plots
actually look like no longer seems efficient. I WOULD LIKE TO DRAFT IN BLACK
AND WHITE. Does anyone know if this is even possible in Autocad? If so, how
would I do it? The only way that I have been able to concoct is to use the
black and gray pen colors and display the lineweights in model and paper
space. This allows me to see line thicknesses and compare them while still
drafting instead of having to set up a sheet and use the method that I've
been using. Any information on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again. DonQuePaso
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Posts:
78
Registered:
01/15/09
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 29, 2009 11:40 PM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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Hi,
I've been reading the messages with interest. It would help a lot if you (and everyone else!) briefly mentioned the salient points, such as your industry, output scale and paper size, type of drawing, etc.
I'm actually wondering what the problem actually is. If you start a new drawing in Acad, unless you add colour, then 'black and white' is what you get. Unless you want 'white and black'. You aren't satisfied with Display Plot Styles, or Lineweight Display. You don't sound like a technophobe, even if what you are seeking seems a little backward-looking. Personally, I like doing my Detail & Section drawings in B&W, and I probably spend more time on them than I need to!
You mention 'alternative drafting methods'. Are you trying to save the Trees and attempting to find the elusive Paper Free Office Holy Grail? Is Plot Preview zooming just not up to the job? Are the drawings so detailed that it's too slow to have a quick'n'dirty 'make DWF' macro for whenever you need it (did you know you can plot from the command line?)? Do you simply want to overlay different drawings to trace or check for accuracy? How is it that you cannot develop predictable results without constant need for 'what you see is what you get' previews?
Do you find when erasing linework that the razor blade keeps leaving scratch marks on your screen? ;-)
FYI I hate plotting in colour. However, when editing I do use the first 9 colours and the greyscales, all set to plot a sensible set of black lineweights. Comparing two drawings is easy if they sit on top of each other and one is all white, the other magenta! I couldn't do that monochromatically.
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 30, 2009 12:00 AM
in response to: CADmonkey_UK_Bu...
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CADmonkey_UK_Building_Services wrote: Hi, I've been reading the messages with interest. It would help a lot if
you (and everyone else!) briefly mentioned the salient points, such as
your industry, output scale and paper size, type of drawing, etc. I'm
actually wondering what the problem actually is. If you start a new
drawing in Acad, unless you add colour, then 'black and white' is what
you get. Unless you want 'white and black'. You aren't satisfied with
Display Plot Styles, or Lineweight Display. You don't sound like a
technophobe, even if what you are seeking seems a little
backward-looking. Personally, I like doing my Detail & Section drawings
in B&W, and I probably spend more time on them than I need to! You
mention 'alternative drafting methods'. Are you trying to save the Trees
and attempting to find the elusive Paper Free Office Holy Grail? Is Plot
Preview zooming just not up to the job? Are the drawings so detailed
that it's too slow to have a quick'n'dirty 'make DWF' macro for whenever
you need it (did you know you can plot from the command line?)? Do you
simply want to overlay different drawings to trace or check for
accuracy? How is it that you cannot develop predictable results without
constant need for 'what you see is what you get' previews? Do you find
when erasing linework that the razor blade keeps leaving scratch marks
on your screen? ;-) FYI I hate plotting in colour. However, when editing
I do use the first 9 colours and the greyscales, all set to plot a
sensible set of black lineweights. Comparing two drawings is easy if
they sit on top of each other and one is all white, the other magenta! I
couldn't do that monochromatically. I never understood what he wanted - and I'm not sure he knew or knows. I use colors only to distinguish different parts but otherwise, plot in monochrome. |
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Posts:
8
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03/27/09
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 30, 2009 5:25 PM
in response to: none
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Well, this has generated some interesting statements and has given me reason to investigate why to even use Autocad for drafing in general. I don't want to sound critical of some of the statements made, heaven knows you are trying to help (I think), but there is nothing backwards, naive or even strange about seeking to improve drafting for the purposes of architecture. One who does not spend time in introspection regarding his time spent doing menial tasks, such as drafting plans, is not valuing his time at all. I respect your feedback but I couldn't disagree more in believing that drafting in B/W is in some way a return to times past. You draft in B/W in Revit (certainly not reminiscent of times past), ArchiCAD, and Vectorworks to name just a few. In fact, using color based templates is, and continues to be, a bastion for the older, less prone to change draftsmen. When you start a new CAD drawing and begin to draw lines you get those lines in color on your screen, not B/W. There is no "elusive Holy Grail" in a paper-free workplace, (I'm not sure what you're talking about there), and I can see that the importance of simplicity may be lost among the older CAD generations.
I try to state my questions simply. That is why my initial posts were succinct. With all due respect, I did not need a critique of MY drafting procedures, I needed a simple answer to my question: can you draft in black and white? With such a simple question why would you need to question my motives?
Anyhow, I can see now that it may be best to answer this simple question myself. The first explanation was sufficient to get me started in my pursuit of improved drafting standards and efficiency. Perhaps you folks can offer help at another time.
Thanks anyway.
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Posts:
539
Registered:
09/16/05
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 30, 2009 5:36 PM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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Personally, I would not prefer drafting in black and white (and yes I use Revit - it is not suggested to use a black background, which is what I was taught on). I know what layer I am on, (or at least narrowing it down) depending on what color is displaying. I can also tell if any entities or blocks are on the wrong layer just by looking at the drawing.
No, I am not trying to give you anymore suggestions as you don't want to listen to anything at all, whether or not they are suggestions or critiques or not.
We all draft to our personal preferences, and if black and white are yours, then go for it.
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Posts:
8
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03/27/09
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 30, 2009 6:35 PM
in response to: sschwartz@wolfw...
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Fair enough. There is a difference between not wanting to listen and not receiving an answer to your question, "none" is a prime example of that.
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Posts:
539
Registered:
09/16/05
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 30, 2009 12:56 PM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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Make a .dwt file with no colors. Set up your layers (in that dwt file) with no colors. Set your lineweights in the layer manager as you want them to print. (Widths).
Simple.
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Posts:
539
Registered:
09/16/05
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 30, 2009 6:38 PM
in response to: sschwartz@wolfw...
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I did reply with an answer. Maybe you didn't understand it.
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Posts:
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03/27/09
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 30, 2009 9:32 PM
in response to: sschwartz@wolfw...
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If you say so, thanks anyway.
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Posts:
78
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01/15/09
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 31, 2009 1:37 AM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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I'VE GOT IT! I BET I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE GUYS PROBLEM IS!
(I mean, apart from being aloof, rambling, reluctant to define terms and low on manners. Oh yeah and something about setting the background colour and displaying line weights).
"'I've dabbled a bit with various settings to suit my fancy in Autocad. However,
adjusting the Page Setup and clicking on the display plot styles in order to
get a black and white view or what the plots actually look like no longer
seems efficient."
No longer efficient?
Do you have to do this once per drawing or something?
Do you know what a template is?
Are you loading acad.lsp with every drawing?
Have you heard of the Drawing Compare utility?
Or Autocad Architecture?
Or industries and commercial practices that are nothing like your own?
If you think 'drafting in black and white' could in no way be an ambiguous statement then you lack imagination. Either all 7 of us are stupid and just came here to annoy you with our stupidity, OR you are wrong, somewhere!
"When you start a new CAD drawing and begin to draw lines you get those lines in color on your screen, not B/W"
Who does? I do? Nooooo.....Not me. I get one layer with one colour.
LOL
Another wild drunken guess at what you're up to:
CURIOUS WORKFLOW for MONOCHROMATIC PRINT PROOFING:
1.You xref Drawing#1 into modelspace
2.You load Drawing#2 into Paperspace
3.You align the two.
4.You proof them
lol
"get me started in my pursuit of improved drafting standards and efficiency"
"I can see that the importance of simplicity may be lost among the older CAD generations."
lol - enough! stop now
"a bastion for the older, less prone to change draftsmen"
lol no really! I'm going to bed now. Boy am I gonna feel bad about THIS in the morning!
Edited by: Your Mum on Mar 31, 2009 2:11 AM
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 31, 2009 7:49 AM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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Hmmm . . . what a strange approach to take - were you asking for
help or were you just hoping to end up being controversial? People here, almost
100% of the time, try to offer help to all comers. Occasionally, a question such
as yours pops up that is not entirely clear in it's intent or concept, despite
the OP's certainty of their own clarity. People here usually attempt to
comprehend the actual point of the post, sometimes with a comment or
two hopefully adding something useful or asking further questions in
order to elucidate the exact meaning of the original enquiry. In your case, you seem to have determined that there is nothing much of use
to you in any of the answers without making any further attempt to clarify your
particular difficulty or problem. I shouldn't expect too much in the way of friendly and helpful responses to
any future enquiries. -- Gordon
If
you say so, thanks anyway.
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 31, 2009 8:13 AM
in response to: Gordon Stephens
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In Don's defence his original post was clear if not
his reasons. His original post clearly states " I WOULD LIKE
TO DRAFT IN BLACK AND WHITE." in capital letters in case his long paragraph was
misunderstood. I got it and responded to it providing a solution. none's 1st response was condescending and Don reacted pointing out that he
had not read the original post correctly. He then responded politely and thankfully to mine and Gordon's response
with a further query. I'm thankful for those that think outside the square.
Hmmm . . . what a strange approach to take - were you asking
for help or were you just hoping to end up being controversial? People here,
almost 100% of the time, try to offer help to all comers. Occasionally, a
question such as yours pops up that is not entirely clear in it's intent or
concept, despite the OP's certainty of their own clarity. People here
usually attempt to comprehend the actual point of the post,
sometimes with a comment or two hopefully adding something useful
or asking further questions in order to elucidate the exact meaning
of the original enquiry. In your case, you seem to have determined that there is nothing much of
use to you in any of the answers without making any further attempt to clarify
your particular difficulty or problem. I shouldn't expect too much in the way of friendly and helpful responses
to any future enquiries. -- Gordon
If
you say so, thanks anyway.
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 31, 2009 2:12 PM
in response to: Nathan
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Look, if you want a simple answer to a simple question (meaning the 'I
would like to . . .'), then the asnwer is clearly and almost self evidently -
yes! Strictly speaking, using one of the simple, original Acad
templates, AutoCAD starts by default with just layer 0 and a white pen/line
if the display is black. In its most basic sense, this would be drafting in
black and white However, when someone asks such a simple question, (the answer to
which is almost self evident as stated above) it behooves those who attempt
an answer to dig a little deeper to see if there is something more complex or
specific about the poster's query. So far as I could see, the original post suggested that the OP had in fact
established for himself the answer to his own question, though it appeared that
he was making certain incorrect assumptions about the efficiency of the process
by only imagining that he could set up the B/W and line width settings on a
per drawing basis, which would of course be less than efficient. However, this
approach was noted and the suggestion made regarding the use of templates in
more than one reply. I am also somewhat bemused by the throwaway comment regarding the fact that
the OP views drafting as a 'menial' task. Many of the users of this forum make
their living by drafting, myself included (for the last 43 years, though of
course there is far more to what I do than the drafting alone), and so it would
be with a certain surprise that I read that line. As to searching for improved drafting standards and increased efficiency, I
am sure that we all aspire to the same goals, but I think that perhaps we also
recognise that we have discovered efficiencies and improved drafting standards
quite separate from the mere choice of drafting in black and white, which so far
as I can establish, confers no particular merit to the process. I have no
axe to grind over how a person chooses to draw, especially if I am not even
required to view or use their drawings, so long as the plotted output achieves
the desired result (usually the concise and clear presentation of design
information). I am also engaged in architectural design and drafting (CAD based for the
last eleven years) and continually persevere in my attempts to improve both
the efficiency of the process and the quality of the output. One of the changes
I made a few yeas ago was a move to stb printing in lieu of ctb, which
enables one to use colour independently of the pen thickness. I would recommend
this approach to anyone, but many do not wish to face the perceived upheaval
necessary to convert from one system to the other. I think that using stb
plotting would aid the OP in his quest to draft in B/W. The OP may also be interested in the toggle at the bottom left of the
screen entitled LWT which will turn on and off the display of line
thickness. He may also enjoy this lisp called PST (Plot Style Toggle) which obviates
the need to set plot style display the long way round. By David Koch I
believe. (defun C:PST ( ; No
arguments.
/
acadDocument ; Holds reference
to the active AutoCAD drawing object.
acadLayout ; Holds reference to the active Layout
object.
acadObject ; Holds
reference to the AutoCAD object.
showPStyles ; Holds current status of PlotStyle display on the active
Layout.
) ;_ End arguments & local
variables.
(cond ; Cond
A
((= (getvar "TILEMODE") 1) ; Model tab is active,
abort command.
(alert
(strcat
"C:PST is meant for use on a Layout tab,
not on the Model tab."
"\nPlease change to a Layout tab and try
again."
) ;_ End strcat.
) ;_ End
alert.
) ;_ End condition A1.
(T ; Condition A2.
(vl-load-com) ; Load "vl" functions, if not already
loaded.
(setq
acadObject
(vlax-get-acad-object)
acadDocument (vlax-get-property acadObject
'ActiveDocument)
acadLayout (vlax-get-property acadDocument
'ActiveLayout)
showPStyles (vlax-get-property acadLayout
'ShowPlotStyles)
) ;_ End
setq.
(if (= showPStyles
:vlax-true)
(progn
(vlax-put-property acadLayout 'ShowPlotStyles :vlax-false)
(prompt
"\nThe display of plot styles has been turned off.
")
) ;_ End
progn.
(progn
(vlax-put-property acadLayout 'ShowPlotStyles :vlax-true)
(prompt
"\nThe display of plot styles has been turned on.
")
) ;_ End
progn.
) ;_ End if.
(vlax-release-object acadLayout)
(vlax-release-object acadDocument)
(vlax-release-object acadObject)
(command
"_.REGENALL") ; Regenerate the screen graphics.
) ;_
End condition A2.
) ;_ End cond A.
(prin1)
) ;_ End
C:PST. -- Gordon
In Don's defence his original post was clear if
not his reasons. His original post clearly states " I WOULD
LIKE TO DRAFT IN BLACK AND WHITE." in capital letters in case his long
paragraph was misunderstood. I got it and responded to it providing a solution. none's 1st response was condescending and Don reacted pointing out that
he had not read the original post correctly. He then responded politely and thankfully to mine and Gordon's response
with a further query. I'm thankful for those that think outside the square.
Hmmm . . . what a strange approach to take - were you asking
for help or were you just hoping to end up being controversial? People here,
almost 100% of the time, try to offer help to all comers. Occasionally, a
question such as yours pops up that is not entirely clear in it's intent or
concept, despite the OP's certainty of their own clarity. People here
usually attempt to comprehend the actual point of the post,
sometimes with a comment or two hopefully adding something useful
or asking further questions in order to elucidate the exact
meaning of the original enquiry. In your case, you seem to have determined that there is nothing much of
use to you in any of the answers without making any further attempt to
clarify your particular difficulty or problem. I shouldn't expect too much in the way of friendly and helpful
responses to any future enquiries. -- Gordon
If
you say so, thanks
anyway.
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 31, 2009 2:32 PM
in response to: Gordon Stephens
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I too dumped cts in favour of stb. (AEC
Standard.stb in my case) I was astounded at how easy the shift was and how
easy and simple it is to use.
Look, if you want a simple answer to a simple question (meaning the 'I
would like to . . .'), then the asnwer is clearly and almost self evidently -
yes! Strictly speaking, using one of the simple, original Acad
templates, AutoCAD starts by default with just layer 0 and a white
pen/line if the display is black. In its most basic sense, this would be
drafting in black and white However, when someone asks such a simple question, (the answer to
which is almost self evident as stated above) it behooves those who
attempt an answer to dig a little deeper to see if there is something more
complex or specific about the poster's query. So far as I could see, the original post suggested that the OP had in
fact established for himself the answer to his own question, though it
appeared that he was making certain incorrect assumptions about the efficiency
of the process by only imagining that he could set up the B/W and line
width settings on a per drawing basis, which would of course be less than
efficient. However, this approach was noted and the suggestion made regarding
the use of templates in more than one reply. I am also somewhat bemused by the throwaway comment regarding the fact
that the OP views drafting as a 'menial' task. Many of the users of this forum
make their living by drafting, myself included (for the last 43 years, though
of course there is far more to what I do than the drafting alone), and so it
would be with a certain surprise that I read that line. As to searching for improved drafting standards and increased efficiency,
I am sure that we all aspire to the same goals, but I think that perhaps we
also recognise that we have discovered efficiencies and improved drafting
standards quite separate from the mere choice of drafting in black and white,
which so far as I can establish, confers no particular merit to the
process. I have no axe to grind over how a person chooses to draw, especially
if I am not even required to view or use their drawings, so long as the
plotted output achieves the desired result (usually the concise and
clear presentation of design information). I am also engaged in architectural design and drafting (CAD based for the
last eleven years) and continually persevere in my attempts to improve
both the efficiency of the process and the quality of the output. One of the
changes I made a few yeas ago was a move to stb printing in lieu
of ctb, which enables one to use colour independently of the pen
thickness. I would recommend this approach to anyone, but many do not wish to
face the perceived upheaval necessary to convert from one system to the other.
I think that using stb plotting would aid the OP in his quest to draft in
B/W. The OP may also be interested in the toggle at the bottom left of the
screen entitled LWT which will turn on and off the display of line
thickness. He may also enjoy this lisp called PST (Plot Style Toggle) which obviates
the need to set plot style display the long way round. By David Koch I
believe. (defun C:PST ( ; No
arguments.
/
acadDocument ; Holds reference
to the active AutoCAD drawing object.
acadLayout ; Holds reference to the active Layout
object.
acadObject ; Holds
reference to the AutoCAD object.
showPStyles ; Holds current status of PlotStyle display on the active
Layout.
) ;_ End arguments & local
variables.
(cond ; Cond
A
((= (getvar "TILEMODE") 1) ; Model tab is
active, abort command.
(alert
(strcat
"C:PST is meant for use on a Layout
tab, not on the Model tab."
"\nPlease change to a Layout tab
and try again."
) ;_ End strcat.
)
;_ End alert.
) ;_ End condition
A1.
(T ; Condition
A2.
(vl-load-com) ; Load "vl"
functions, if not already loaded.
(setq
acadObject
(vlax-get-acad-object)
acadDocument (vlax-get-property acadObject
'ActiveDocument)
acadLayout (vlax-get-property acadDocument
'ActiveLayout)
showPStyles (vlax-get-property acadLayout
'ShowPlotStyles)
) ;_ End
setq.
(if (= showPStyles
:vlax-true)
(progn
(vlax-put-property acadLayout 'ShowPlotStyles :vlax-false)
(prompt
"\nThe display of plot styles has been turned off.
")
) ;_ End
progn.
(progn
(vlax-put-property acadLayout 'ShowPlotStyles :vlax-true)
(prompt
"\nThe display of plot styles has been turned on.
")
) ;_ End
progn.
) ;_ End if.
(vlax-release-object acadLayout)
(vlax-release-object acadDocument)
(vlax-release-object acadObject)
(command
"_.REGENALL") ; Regenerate the screen graphics.
)
;_ End condition A2.
) ;_ End cond A.
(prin1)
) ;_ End
C:PST. -- Gordon
In Don's defence his original post was clear if
not his reasons. His original post clearly states " I WOULD
LIKE TO DRAFT IN BLACK AND WHITE." in capital letters in case his long
paragraph was misunderstood. I got it and responded to it providing a solution. none's 1st response was condescending and Don reacted pointing out that
he had not read the original post correctly. He then responded politely and thankfully to mine and Gordon's response
with a further query. I'm thankful for those that think outside the square.
Hmmm . . . what a strange approach to take - were
you asking for help or were you just hoping to end up being
controversial? People here, almost 100% of the time, try to offer help to
all comers. Occasionally, a question such as yours pops up that is not
entirely clear in it's intent or concept, despite the OP's certainty of
their own clarity. People here usually attempt to comprehend
the actual point of the post, sometimes with a comment or two
hopefully adding something useful or asking further questions in
order to elucidate the exact meaning of the original enquiry. In your case, you seem to have determined that there is nothing much
of use to you in any of the answers without making any further attempt to
clarify your particular difficulty or problem. I shouldn't expect too much in the way of friendly and helpful
responses to any future enquiries. -- Gordon
If
you say so, thanks
anyway.
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 31, 2009 3:23 PM
in response to: Nathan
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Indeed, simplicity itself once you make the decision to make the move. I
have never looked back, and appreciate the flexibility available in stb that is
simply not possible in the same way with ctb. I have tried in vain to persuade
certain colleagues in other offices to change, but until they try it,
(which they resist) they seem unable to perceive the possible
benefits. -- Gordon
I too dumped cts in favour of stb. (AEC
Standard.stb in my case) I was astounded at how easy the shift was and how
easy and simple it is to use.
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Posts:
8
Registered:
03/27/09
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 31, 2009 2:55 PM
in response to: Gordon Stephens
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Sounds good. Controversial or not, there wa no need to clarify my intent given my specific question. Perhaps the forum has degenerated into a forum for the overly eager, or those who believe that specific questions are beneath them. I was warned by our lead "Draftsman" of this fact but tried to get an answer anyway. I didn't expect that my responses to initial hostility would lead to more help. In fact, since my second round of statements I haven't even asked. Yet you and a few others continue to write negative responses. That leads to a whole new round of questions about why you would even bother? I thought that I would find a few experts that knew enough about AutoCAD to offer specific answers to specific questions, rather than attempting to prove how little they know by trying to either convince me that their way is better. So why are you and "none" trying to do this?
I'll expect an answer since you obviously have free time to argue over the web.
Thanks again to Nathan. Hopefully my "menial task" statement didn't upset any CADsmen as that was not my intent. Anyhow, as Nathan so politely replied, the simple question had a simple answer and that was my intention, so thank you.
Edited by: DonQuePaso on Mar 31, 2009 2:58 PM
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Posts:
539
Registered:
09/16/05
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 31, 2009 3:04 PM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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F1 will assist you with how you draft. The rest is your problem. :D
Edited by: sschwartz@wolfwineman.com on Mar 31, 2009 11:08 AM
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 31, 2009 3:15 PM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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of the few forums and mailing list I subscribe to or watch, this one
seems to have the least amount of negitivity or flaming posts.
There are very knowledgeable people here so don't give up just because
of a bad experience.
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Posts:
78
Registered:
01/15/09
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Mar 31, 2009 5:43 PM
in response to: JohnDoe
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My career started by cleaning out the other draughtsmens Rotring Pens, and learning how to do lettering until the Machines started taking over. Ah, the smell of ammonia first thing in the morning! Can't say I miss it much.....
Although I work almost exclusively in 3D these days, (MEP and ADT), the drawings I create from the Models are all setup to look like they were drawn in 2D, by a draughtsman who cares.
I always relish the opportunity to stretch the 2D muscles. MEP is good at generating 'rough' sections and elevations that then need 'working up' to a greater or lesser degree. I like to think of it as polishing. It's about the only time I still think in terms of lines, arcs, text etc.
That said, anyone who is running projects through the Project Navigator will tell you that xrefs, layers and colours are nothing like as critical as they used to be. Once you have the basic standards and layer keys installed, Autocad largely takes care of everything. As a result, layer names, xref names & structures and colours are mostly completely arbitrary.
Personally, I use one high-contrast (read - Gaudy!) colour scheme for Editing and a completely different one for (monochrome) Publishing. It take 2 mouse clicks to switch from one to the other. A created object such as a section of pipe or wall will automatically create information on several layers, ie centrelines, low detail display, high detail display, cladding, structural makeup. Even notation is generated: Pipe sizes, elevation and system labels are 'connected' to the object and update themselves as required. Better still, crossing objects will not only 'trim' themselves to show correctly, but will also leave a 'halo' gap and sort out any hidden lines. Schedules will then count it all up for you and put it in a table. Currently, however, Autocad cannot make coffee
It is, admittedly, a steep learning curve to get the results you want but once you've arrived, you can batch plot 100 drawings with 5 clicks of the mouse, confident that they will all look just how they need to. You are free to concentrate more on the Content, rather than the Presentation.
For me, Autocad has gone from being like an Etch-a-sketch on steroids, to more like a virtual Lego set on steroids!
My point is, even if what I describe above is nothing like your current working practice and in no way tempts you to review your methods, you have to respect the fact that increasingly, it will become established standard practice for other companies if not yourselves.
Drafting has evolved, but that does not mean that hundreds of years of proven communication methods are now redundant. Efficiency demands the combination of the old methods and the new, not a futile battle of supremacy.
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Apr 1, 2009 2:03 PM
in response to: CADmonkey_UK_Bu...
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CADmonkey, drop me a visit if you care
to. Always nice to have another metric ADT
user. I've come to see there are construction techniques
(and adt tricks) we share with the old country. You might have some good tips you can
share. |
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Posts:
8
Registered:
03/27/09
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Apr 1, 2009 3:17 PM
in response to: Nathan
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I'm surprised that this thread continues given its content. However, I'm glad that we are all passionate about our views and feel it necessary to defend them. Regarding the general gist of this thread, I appreciate that the well-proven, well-tested means of visual communication from the past persist. In fact, I use them myself. As an architect, I use analog and digital means to communicate ideas, concepts, and future reality. This was something that was never asked by our resident CAD experts for whatever reason. It was just assumed that by asking about the possibilities of drafting monochromatically meant that the questioner was either dumb, naive, or ignorant. As for my initial reponse, I'm always amazed when someone is surprised that their hostility and belligerence is met in kind. It was Nathan, and Nathan alone, that responded in a professional and courteous manner. Although I draft using the same tried-and-true color based methods argued over in the thread I believe that there is some possibility in B/W. That is why I asked the question. A true forum of learning and collaboration does not meet such a question with condescension, derision, or contempt; it does the opposite. Questioning those tried-and-true methods is what allows for improvements to, and the refining of, such conventions. It will lead to the improvement of software and facilitate the expression of ideas.
Hopefully, this clarifies my original intention and allows for a more civil discourse and dialectic.
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Apr 1, 2009 4:51 PM
in response to: DonQuePaso
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There isn't anything preventing someone from drafting in black and white if
that is what they want to do.
But one thing I want to mention that might have been brought out before with
respects to using colors (I might have missed it) is that if you use a
standard layering setup, with layers set to certain colors, (mind you it
doesn't need to be overly complex with perhaps only a handful of colors -
simple is good), and if you typically draw with color set to BYLAYER - you
can quickly tell if/when objects are on the wrong layer. IOW, the colors
can and do serve as valuable feedback while drafting, thus reducing errors.
OTOH, I've seen drawings where all the layers were set to white, and I've
found it to be pretty much a lost cause to discern what objects might be on
the wrong layer - yeah, I can find them, but I find that it takes more of my
time, and is not a good way for me (personally) to work. Just some food for
thought. YMMV.
Regards,
David Kozina
wrote in message news:6153618@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm surprised that this thread continues given its content. However, I'm
glad that we are all passionate about our views and feel it necessary to
defend them. Regarding the general gist of this thread, I appreciate that
the well-proven, well-tested means of visual communication from the past
persist. In fact, I use them myself. As an architect, I use analog and
digital means to communicate ideas, concepts, and future reality. This was
something that was never asked by our resident CAD experts for whatever
reason. It was just assumed that by asking about the possibilities of
drafting monochromatically meant that the questioner was either dumb, naive,
or ignorant. As for my initial reponse, I'm always amazed when someone is
surprised that their hostility and belligerence is met in kind. It was
Nathan, and Nathan alone, that responded in a professional and courteous
manner. Although I draft using the same tried-and-true color based methods
argued over in the thread I believe that there is some possibility in B/W.
That is why I asked the question. A true forum of learning and collaboration
does not meet such a question with condescension, derision, or contempt; it
does the opposite. Questioning those tried-and-true methods is what allows
for improvements to, and the refining of, such conventions. It will lead to
the improvement of software and facilitate the expression of ideas.
Hopefully, this clarifies my original intention and allows for a more civil
discourse and dialectic.
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Posts:
78
Registered:
01/15/09
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Apr 1, 2009 5:58 PM
in response to: David Kozina
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"I've seen drawings where all the layers were set to white, .... lost cause ... I can find them, but I find that it takes more of my
time....YMMV."
It sure does! Try typing 'laywalk' next time
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Re: How to draft in Black and White
Posted:
Apr 1, 2009 7:11 PM
in response to: CADmonkey_UK_Bu...
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Verily.
The point I was trying to make was that, for me, monochrome drafting
*removes feedback*, which increases the possibility of error, as well as
increases the time needed to find errors.
wrote in message
news:6153820@discussion.autodesk.com...
"I've seen drawings where all the layers were set to white, .... lost cause
... I can find them, but I find that it takes more of my time....YMMV." It
sure does! Try typing 'laywalk' next time
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